Widespread Panic: American Healthcare Fascialism on Waseca County News

Comments

Sunday
October 25, 2009
06:56pm

Robert Dickerson
we pay for socialized police and fire protection so why not healthcare or eductation? look at the contries that have some form of national health care. look at their life spans and overall health ie say denmark to name one of many. then look at their public education system, test scores, and placement in technical and scientific jobs. is socialized education and healthcare really that bad as long as its done in the right way? just an observation

Monday
October 26, 2009
07:31am

Matt Johansen
Hi Robert,

Thank you for the comment. I would say that there is a clear distinction between law enforcement and fire protection which are used very sporadically, and where they are used are very intensive. There is virtually no way to make a market for their services - I would say the only parallel to health care is ambulance and trauma care. Education and the other 95% of health care you can make rational choices for because you make them over a much longer period of time. If you consider larger (and longer term) consumers of police and fire services you see that they often do use the marketplace to efficiently meet their needs through sprinkler systems, private water towers, security guards, surveillance, etc.

I don't know that Denmark - U.S. comparisons are apples to apples given the U.S. geographic size, income variations, mobility, etc. That being said according to Wikipedia the life expectancy in Denmark is 78.3 compared to the U.S. at 78.1 - here in Minnesota it is 78.8. I cannot fully comment on their test scores etc. I can speak generally about where we would see education playing itself out - the economy and I see far more innovation and wealth creation coming out of the U.S.. Broadly their GDP per capita is about $37k, while the US is at $47k.

I have more thoughts on this but have to run for now.

Tuesday
October 27, 2009
01:28am

Robert Dickerson
you make some good points and i guess i just fall more to the point of view that we as a society have an obligation to each other and our communities i make about 50k a year and dont personaly mind paying more for our kids to get a good education and i dont object to paying more for a health system that works and covers those who can't afford it. however the system has to work and be sustainable. there are pro's and con's to both sides of the argument but public discussion is good. the reason i picked denmark was because when i visited i was struck by how people were happy and had a good quality of life. my coworker who lived there had lived in the u.s. and we had many long discussions about the differances. i guess in honesty its not just a different system but also a different mindset.

Tuesday
October 27, 2009
07:04am

Matt Johansen
I agree that there is an obligation to provide health care and education. However, I believe that is personal obligation rather than a societal one.

Firstly, the personal obligation can be met close to home, and in the areas that you desire the most. Making sure ones family is healthy and educated is a long time, proven tradition in our country. Once we pass the obligation off to the government we minimize the care. Some feel strongly about health care - think of the millions donated annualy to hospitals, medical charities, etc. Some feel strongly about education, consider the Gates foundation, endowments to churches to fund schools. The needs of the society can be met at the personal level.

Secondly, the public systems are woefully inefficient not just in cost but in total product delivered. Education and health care are not areas where can afford shortages or waste. Central planning ignores the needs of the marketplace. Consider Medicare not paying for visits geriatricians but they will pay for each individual specialist that can confirm what a geriatrician would have decided in the first place. Consider the $4billion that Obama included in the stimulus bill for education - it is targeted towards testing and measurement rather than effectiveness. Spending $100 on a digital thermometer so you can tell the temperature to 1/10th of a degree is great except that when you have no coat.

My brother was a foreign exchange student in Denmark during college and he loved it there. We actually were discussing Denmark this weekend. Each year the families get an additional check from the government to buy school clothes and supplies. There are other payments throughout the year of that nature as well. Homelessness is not an issue, and rather than providing room in a shelter people without means are provided an apartment. I was interested to find that Denmark is considered to have the 11th most free economy. Not sure how that plays with the preceeding statements but I plan to read up on that when I get a chance.

Tuesday
October 27, 2009
09:04pm

Robert Dickerson
i agree wholeheartedly that the system is broken both in education and heathcare but how do we fix it is the question. America is unique but our violent opposition to change or even looking at other ways to do things bothers me. I dont think there is any cut and paste system that would work in our situation but is it so bad to look outside for ideas. as for privatization the way its been done in health care hasn't worked. i will say our private education system is good. So what is the solution maybe we won't all agree but what can we all live with.

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